Collaboration Matters!

IBM has an excellent historybook to look in. If they refresh their minds about what happened then (2003) it should trigger some alarms. They almost succeeded in killing Notes then. Do not let history repeat itself.

{ Link }

IBM is probably well aware of the risk and they are going to take it.

Stuart

You say, in the penultimate paragraph, that this uncertainly about the Lotus name, the Lotus brand and future of the ICS products in the market is one that is affecting more and nore customers. Could it be that this is in part or in the main that they're read the various blogs and other articles that highlight this issue (I'll hold my hand up here too), and are getting wound up and FUDded because of what they are reading in the yellowsphere? We all want our opinions out there, and the ability to get a vast mixture of such opinions out there for general consideration is a great asset, but sometimes the end result doesn't turn out to be what we originally intended and hoped for.

I am making an assumption here... I just wonder if some in IBM sees Notes as something in the way of Connections? IBM should be giving Notes a pathway convergence WITH Connections which they don't seem to be doing very well as they probably want Websphere$$ for that. If they focused on Notes as the converging platform for Connections they would have a large administration and developer base already in place.

My two cents and another $3 will buy starbucks coffee.

Lotus is a brand, it's not a company or a product anymore. If you ask most people what Lotus is they'll probably tell you either a car company, a flower or a company that once made a spreadsheet.

To me, IBM ceasing to using the Lotus name is not the same as the claim that Notes or Domino is dead.

I think Mick has a point though, you're on the way to a self-fulfilling prophecy. I think you believe you're doing all your customers a favour by continuing going on about this, but in reality I think you're probably not. IBM has not said they are killing Notes/Domino, you have. Personally I think your very public bug with this is doing more harm than good.

Customers I chat to don't start a conversation with "What the hell is IBM doing with the Lotus name?" or "How will the Lotus name help my business?", customers are smarter than we often give them credit, they have problems, it is our job to sell them the solution to their problems. From my point of view, if no brand product X solves their problem I'll recommend that, if multi million dollar brand Y solves their problem I'll recommend that.

Sure this is uncomfortable for what have traditional thought of themselves as Lotus partners. But guess what, the Lotus Partner program hasn't existed for years, it's been the IBM partner program for years.

Lotus WAS a cool software company once upon a time, it lost much of that image when Windows came along and it never got it back. It's just taken IBM a long time to realise it.

@1 That parallel has been drawn before. It's a scary one.

@2 I'm sure they are, but the question is then why did the call go the way it did?

@3 and @5 re: self fulfilling prophecy. I do see the danger, and for that reason I'm going quiet on this for a few weeks to see what happens. If others see it as an issue it will continue to be discussed. If not, then thats fine.

@4 That could well be part of the thought process. Domino is seen as being a very cheap option for many solutions, in that it doesn't need a large software stack, a load of infrastructure and many man years of services. Other 'solutions' do need that...

More widely, particularly for Carl. You say that ceasing to use the Lotus name is not the same as Notes and Domino is dead. Well, if Lotus as a brand is not going to be marketed, publicised or even mentioned, and Notes/Domino/Traveler etc are the only solutions in that brand, then ergo those products also will not be marketed, mentioned etc... They may still be alive in the sense that you can buy them, but for all other intents and purposes they will be, well... you can work out the rest.

If these three facts are simultaneously true - Lotus brand dead, Notes/Domino remain in Lotus brand, Notes/Domino alive - then we need to understand how that can be.

As I say, this is the last post on the topic for a while, lets see what percolates in the meantime...

Sorry to drop in on a 'closing' thread here, but seriously ... "self fulfilling prophecy"???

Are you saying, that we should stop talking about something a lot of us feel is a pretty important issue, because talking about it might make it worse?

What kind of strategy is that? If we accept that, then when can you ever challenge any decision by anybody, anymore?

We're talking about this, because it's REAL. It IS an issue already, like it or not. The lack of communication from IBM on this matter IS worrying. Nobody - or very few - CIOs out there have ANY idea what the IBM strategy for the Domino platform is. As a result, even companies with large investments in the platform are adding Sharepoint to their portfolio, without even considering if Notes or Quickr could do the job, even though those platforms are already in place and well governed in the organizations. I'm not an IBM partner. I'm a customer, and from a customer point of view, this is a problem!

I don't think it is the job of the community to 'cloud' the strategic flaws of IBM. This is directly opposing any serious foundation for 'social' anything. Information (or lack of information) is out there. That brings discussion and dialogue for IBM to 'engage' in. It's page 1 in the 'social' how-to bible.

But IBM are silent on this. Even when giving brilliant opportunities, they fail to deliver any information of value. Even communicating that they are not yet ready to communicate, would be better than what they are doing at the moment, just plugging 'social' and avoiding the issue.

Oh no - it is not Stuart's fault - or anybody else in the community for that matter - that customers are scared about this. Quite the opposite.

Come on, IBM. ENGAGE!!!

Lars I think you want a product road map. Stuart has been going on about wanting a Lotus brand road map. Two very different things.

Come on, Carl. The "Lotus Brand" basically IS the product roadmap for the Lotus branded portfolio. Discussing Brand road map v Product road map is moot. I want a CLEAR STRATEGY!

If there is no clear product roadmap - which there definitely isn't - then we often rely on brand reputation for our decision making. If you have a large investment with the Lotus brand, you can live with periods of time with no clear product roadmap, as long as the brand looks solid. When the brand fades, the loyalty fades, unless there is a clear strategy.

For years IBM has been touting "No Rip'n'Replace" with the Notes/Domino products in particular. Now, IBM is yelling "SHIFT" all over - even at community calls, yet they don't tell us what to shift TO. What they DO, however, is completely remove the Lotus brand from all marketing - even the marketing at the yearly Lotus brand event extravaganza "Lotusphere". I was there - there was NO Lotus logos to be seen.

As a customer, I worry about my investments. At the moment, those investments are with "Lotus". Ask my CIO, he will tell you we run "Lotus" software - not "IBM" software. If the Lotus brand name just disappears, is it wrong for him to think that the product portfolio under that brand disappears as well, and that his investment will be under pressure very soon?

IBM needs to tell what will happen to the Lotus name. Whether it is kept for some things or erased completely makes little difference, as long as it is quickly and CLEARLY communicated what will happen, why, and how we as customers can ensure a continuation of our investment, be it a continuation of the products under a new brand or through (troublefree) migration to other products in the IBM portfolio.

I don't care if it's blue or yellow. I want to know what direction IBM is taking with matters essential to MY business.

The products and the brand name are connected. At the moment, IBM appears to be killing the brand name, yet they won't tell it to our faces. Heck - they won't even tell it to their partners, who's business is not just built with these products, but based on the very existance of the portfolio. These partners produce their own marketing material. Should they put a Lotus logo in the next batch? Should they mention Domino at all? Collaboration or Social? Or Social Collaboration? Should they sell new customers on a platform that might be gone in a few months, or perhaps need a costly migration, instead of telling their customers to hold on for 6 months and go directly to the new platform.

Nobody knows? IBM won't tell us, and OUR business suffers from it.

This is poor execution of strategy - if there even is one - and there is good reason to worry, since I'm fairly sure that history will show you, that when you're not being told, it is not a good thing.

I think Stuart is spot on with his statement above, and I can easily understand why Notes/Domino is considered a 'burning platform' in many companies right now.

From my (a customers point of view) I really don't care what they call the software, weather it's on a road map, or if it uses all of the latest buzz words in the name. I just want something that works, is fully supported, and not riddled with bugs.

Just glancing at the Fix List ({ Link } which ironically still has a NSF file named "r5fixlist"(seems current), there have been over 2200 bugs/regressions/fixes in the 8.5.2 release alone. The 8.5.3 release shows 614, it was 611 yesterday.

Am I supposed to be impressed with how many items are "fixed" or should I be concerned that there were so many issues to start with?

So as a customer am I concerned that IBM might rebrand the entire Lotus suite and call it IBM Collaboration Suite, or IBM Notes Next, or IBM Vulcan, or whatever combination of IBM and buzz words are available? NO.

Frankly I could care less if the called it "the thing that does some cool stuff sorta well", at least it would be an hones approach!

Very simple. As a customer, we have Websphere, Tivoli, Notes/Domino stack (Quickr, Traveler,....) and iSeries servers. If IBM "renames" Lotus that's not an issue because we think it's a strategy for getting NEW costumers. Project Vulcan IS the inflection point. But if IBM quits Notes/Domino we have a clear decision. Quit IBM portfolio. As a whole.

Back when Activities were first shown as a separate IBM Research project at Lotusphere, I asked where the Notes client integration was, and at that point there was no answer at all. It was clearly on the fast-track to being a new product, but the people showing it had no story to tell to the Lotus installed base. I made quite a lot of noise about that back then -- as much as one guy can, I think, and it wasn't because I'm a tree-hugging Notes client guy. It's because that's where the client base was. Large organizations that really cared about collaboration in the 90's became Notes customers. IMHO, those are the organizations who are most likely to still care the most about collaboration, and are most likely to be interested in doing collaboration even better. So those are the customers most likely to be looking at new collaboration styles, and new collaboration tools -- and there are lots to choose from now. Even if IBM's new products are best-in-breed across the board, and even if IBM already has the customer relationships through Notes and Domino, these probable early-adopter customers do have choices! So if IBM want's to keep those customers, what is their best weapon? Integration with what the customers already have, which is Notes and Domino. Not just good integration, but great integration.

It's not the brand that matters. It's the integration or convergence of the old brand's products with the new stuff. That's what everybody should be caring about.

Our company will not be going to Connections, nor will we be implementing "Vulcan" anytime soon. We (meaning support and users) are actually happy with our collaboration suite with Lotus, Sametime and Quickr. I also know a ton of other companies who feel the same way, they're not going to let anyone shove Connections and all this new "Vulcan" stuff down their throats. If support for our current set of products goes away, we will change teams, simple!

IBM won't give up on Notes but it will probably be getting harder for customers to decide on what (IBM) products they base their solutions. Maybe we are all getting it wrong but at least we are not alone. Even Peter O'Kelly has its problems with IBM { Link }

[...]Beyond its enterprise messaging capabilities, however, Lotus Notes should be considered a legacy product [...]

Maybe not talking about it won't stop the competition telling their story.

PS: A real roadmap would be a great thing too.

I hear and understand all of your thoughts and concerns.

We are a large iSeries customer and our (Lotus) Domino enviroment runs on IBM i ---> if (!) Connections is the direction IBM is heading (with the name Lotus or without) then Connections should better run on Domino on IBM i and not only on Linux, AIX and Windows. We would not implement it on another platform.

Apart from that I agree with @13: currently we are happy with our existing Lotus Notes Domino and Sametime infrastructure. We agree that in the future there will be other forms of collaboration apart from simple mail and chat but in our environment we are still years away from implementing this even on a small scale.

If IBM shows us a clear strategy and migration path from the current to the new products on the platform we use (e.g. Domino on IBM i) then we can live with the fact that the name 'Lotus' will no longer be part of it (although I admit I'll miss it :-) ). But if this 'new world' will not be supported on the platform we use then I think this will be a show-stopper for the products in our company.

So for the time being I patiently sit and wait for IBM to reveal their strategy on this (and trust that it is not a strategy to simply gain new customers but also one to keep existing customers happy). I'll keep my fingers crossed :-)

"You've got to start with the customer experience, and work back to the technology". The Workplace disaster was exactly the opposite, instead I believe that this time IBM is starting from customer experience, customer needs, and then get back to the right technology, no matter the brand (and by the way, Lotus is a more and more unpopular brand, in every Corporation, in particular at Board/Executive level. No matter the features, Lotus is seen as Jurassic age solution...)

"Many of (Lotus Notes and Domino) customers still love those products, and that is definitely true of the advocates for those products in the organisations". I'd say that's ONLY true of the advocates.

All I see in comments above is Lotus Notes love from old organizations and existing customers - Lotus Notes won't live on stream revenue forever, and frankly, neither will IBM. Perhaps this is your way to get job security by sticking with expertise on outdated technology

I know no IBMer in my 10 year life at the company who likes having to use Lotus Notes more than a necessary evil in running the business. Not Notes, not LotusLive, not Notes on the web/cloud. It's a relic of the past, and every new attempt still reeks of its legacy. This persistence to Notes is one of the things that'll cause huge turmoil once the next CEO takes over from Sam's "sync retirement with stock price peak" strategy.

@18, I'm not sure you are an IBMer or not but what you say is true. Most IBMers hate Notes. And that rubs off on your customers.

With employees like you who needs competitors?

I honestly cannot believe you are actually an IBM employee. My instincts are screaming "troll". But nevertheless, I feel I must at least attempt to clear some of the cobwebs from your pointy haired head.

"sticking with expertise on outdated technology"

JSF and XPages is outdated technology? I beg to differ.

"to use Lotus Notes more than a necessary evil"

What would you prefer? Exchange? Sharepoint? LAMP? Name ONE product from ANY vendor ANYWHERE on the planet that is as capable and secure as Notes/Domino and I will be happy to switch careers -I'm that confident in the ability of the product.

"It's a relic of the past, and every new attempt still reeks of its legacy."

Are the customers who pay GOBS of money to IBM for licenses also viewed with such disdain?

Notes will become IBM Lotus Notes. That will allow for IBM Lotusphere to continue and everyone will forget this issue.

Connections is in an odd place right now. It sits somewhere between Notes and Websphere Portal. Microsoft doesn't make you buy a third social product, it is just part of outlook and sharepoint. IBM should do the same, and maybe that's the Vulcan goal. If so, seed every Notes shop with free Connections now.